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View Full Version : Help with waxes and polishes on a weird colour car



Andy Comber
08-02-2014, 11:02 AM
Hi everyone,

I have a 2005 kia sportage XE and the paint is black but it's called a "black cherry pearl" I think.

Basically it's a black with dark red metallic flecks in it.

The previous owner introduced a ton of swirl marks and scratches and I will ultimately want to correct this, but in the meantime, I'm wondering what the best chemical guys polish and wax would be suitable?

I have previously used some autoglym resin polish that I had (bought before I knew about chemical guys for last car) and I sealed it after a polish and topped off with butter wet wax. It looked pretty good but I'm not getting very good hydrophobic coating with it.

It may be because the previous owner possibly never polished it at all, and as I was polishing the bonnet (hood for you Americans) it literally seemed to suck in the polish as I applied, like it was thirsty for it.

I have some butter wet wax now and wondered what advice you all have for a polish and sealer and finally a wax that may be more hydrophobic on my paint than the butter wet wax?

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

I'm thinking jet seal as a sealer ATM but a bit confused over best polish and wax?

What do you recommend?

shahsmerdis
08-02-2014, 06:48 PM
Depends on your budget, time, and how many passes you want to do. Do you have a machine?

Andy Comber
08-03-2014, 12:45 AM
Budget isn't really a problem. I will buy the right tools for the job to get the right results (within reason)

time wise, if it takes me an afternoon, then it takes me an afternoon. I don't have a problem with that.

However I do not have a polishing machine and have never used one, so all applications will be by hand and on my own.

shahsmerdis
08-03-2014, 07:11 AM
To be honest, if your budget can support DA machine you will get really good results... It's significantly harder to do it by hand, or maybe I'm just lazy... Usually 100 $ on amazon, apparently there is a harbor fright DA polisher, which looks like rebranded version of the gen 1 portercable which is pretty cheap.

90% of paint shine is going to be from polishing, so if its between getting a 50dollar + wax and a DA machine, I suggest you go for the DA machine. DA machine + V36 will probably correct most of your problems if your paint isn't obscenely hard.

V36 + DA machine + Jetseal = ~15-20$ + ~100$ +~30-40$ depending if you find a sale.

if you really want to go by hand, I suggest you get some orange hand cutting pads, and a Vline sampling kit. Try a test spot, then order a bottle of that. Usually you have to use a more aggressive polish to compensate for lack of machine to remove swirls by hand.

Andy Comber
08-03-2014, 09:24 AM
To be honest, if your budget can support DA machine you will get really good results... It's significantly harder to do it by hand, or maybe I'm just lazy... Usually 100 $ on amazon, apparently there is a harbor fright DA polisher, which looks like rebranded version of the gen 1 portercable which is pretty cheap.

90% of paint shine is going to be from polishing, so if its between getting a 50dollar + wax and a DA machine, I suggest you go for the DA machine. DA machine + V36 will probably correct most of your problems if your paint isn't obscenely hard.

V36 + DA machine + Jetseal = ~15-20$ + ~100$ +~30-40$ depending if you find a sale.

if you really want to go by hand, I suggest you get some orange hand cutting pads, and a Vline sampling kit. Try a test spot, then order a bottle of that. Usually you have to use a more aggressive polish to compensate for lack of machine to remove swirls by hand.

Yeah I had planned on a DA polisher and the chemicalguysUK site does a kit with a polishing machine and pads and the cline set (3 of them anyway) for 160 (approx $270 I think) which is within my budget.

I am actually more scared of ruining it as I've never done it before and although I have watched the CG videos doing this, they make it look so easy. Doing it by hand is not a prospect I'm looking forward to, but the way I saw it it's either , risk it with a DA machine or risk making it worse by hand.

I'm not sure which is worse to be honest lol

I've been looking into the VLine for correction but being too far away from the uk detail garage course due to my work constraints, I'd be learning on my car and that scares me.

I could alternatively pay someone local to do a paint correction but that will cost twice at least what the polisher machine would.

I guess I'm just nervous about messing up my pride and joy

Should I get a practice bonnet (hood) for the VLine and polisher do you think?

How many paint corrections would I likely get from a 16oz bottles of VLine?

TdawgtheGreat
08-03-2014, 11:22 AM
you'll in the long run have more of a chance to mess up your paint doing it by hand. And you are looking at it taking an afternoon worth of time with a DA. It'll take you DAYS to get any result doing it by hand, and it won't be an even shine/correction I promise you.

I'd never polished a car with a DA, and I did a full 3 step correction on a black car for my first try, and it turned out great. Hardest color to make look good, and it came out flawless. Just watch the videos and take your time. You won't hurt your paint with a DA like a Portercable, you'd REALLY have to try to get it to ruin your paint.

I'd say you'd get a good 7+ normal sized cars worth of product out of the 16oz bottles. Possibly more though. When you are first starting out, you usually use too much polish until you start getting the hang of it.

Andy Comber
08-03-2014, 11:47 AM
Cool, thanks for the advice guys.

I'm definitely wanting to learn and master machine polishing. Just paranoid I'll mess it up.

I'm usually quite careful and a fast learner with most things so probably worth a shot right?

This is the kit I'm looking at to start with. I may upgrade the polishing machine later on but this is my best option to ensure I get the right stuff that works together at a reasonable price.

Polisher kit at chemical guys UK (http://www.chemicalguysuk.com/Chemical_Guys_Dual_Action_Polisher_Starter_Kit_p/cgdua.htm)

What do you think?

I've never seen any chemical guys vids using the kestrel brand polisher, but the rupes ones are 5 times the cost of the kit here and as I'm just starting and learning it seems like a good option for me.

MattMan
08-04-2014, 08:43 AM
all of your thoughts, worries/concerns, and ideas of polishing are not untypical of those who have yet to do it! I felt the same way before I started! don't freak out.. polishing is the only way to achieve true shine from your paintwork!

if you've never polished before, I'd recommend starting with a DA machine like the Porter Cable 7424XP. That machine is an industry-standard machine that produces fantastic results in the hands of professionals, and amateurs alike. plus it has multiple built-in safety features that help keep you from damaging paint permanently.

I don't believe the cost of the PC is much higher than machines you may be considering.

If you CAN take a polishing class, I'd recommend it... but if you're a quick study and would be confident giving it the ol' college try by yourself, check out our many youtube videos! Greg does a great job outlining the process in all the videos, so if you follow the instructions to the 'T,' you're in good shape.

the one thing that you can't convey through videos is getting the "feel" of the machine.. take note of how hard Greg presses down on the PC when polishing and how fast he moves side to side. (I go with about 1"/second) do your test spots and pay attention to the results you're getting on your car.

good luck!

Andy Comber
08-04-2014, 09:14 AM
Thanks @mattman.

I'm fairly confident now to give it a go, I've watched all your YouTube vids numerous times, I mean HOURS and HOURS worth.

I'm having trouble finding anywhere that sells the porter cable model machine polisher in the uk.

I've just been looking on the CG EU site and see the flex and rupes branded ones. I'm considering buying the flex as I've seen it being used in your videos.

I have a black sportage (2005 model) with red flake in the paint. What would be best to use to polish this type of paint after correction?

I'm thinking black light or similar?

It's such a minefield ATM for me I'm looking to buy 1 machine that will last a lifetime. I'd also like to use the machine to do more regular polishes and waxing with it hopefully.

Do you think the flex machines would be suitable as a first machine for an amateur?

MattMan
08-04-2014, 10:09 AM
I'd start with V36 on an orange pad, then finish with V38 on a white pad.

black light is not a polish or compound. Black Light is a glaze, which fills minor scratches and adds TONS of extra gloss, depth, and shine. you then seal that in with JetSeal for the ultimate protection that lasts up to 12 months.

Choosing a machine comes down to preference, cost-benefit, and value/versatility. we generally recommend the PC to the weekend warrior because it's one machine that can do it ALL (compounding, polishing, waxing, carpet scrubbing, upholstery scrubbing, etc.), and do it all at a fantastic price. it may not get the job done as quickly as the Rupes or the Flex, but it will get it done, and get more tasks done as well.

If you're looking for one machine that will last a lifetime of the ultimate versatility get the Porter Cable 7424XP. The machine has rugged build quality and never quits. you could practically drive nails with the housing, it's so solid!

(don't actually try to drive nails with the machine!)

for in depth side by side comparisons between the industry standard machines, check out these great videos.

http://youtu.be/IWjG9F0_BJg

http://youtu.be/x7E2Mt3XooQ

http://youtu.be/LPp9oF6_Y1M

http://youtu.be/PsQeGUCC8D0

Andy Comber
08-04-2014, 11:03 AM
Watching those vids now, thanks for the links ;)

Still can only find the porter cable in the United States with US plug. I'm in the UK so my be looking at a flex or even the rupes Bigfoot duetto machine. Seem to be more readily available over here.

But will study the vids and let you guys know when I get to play.

:)

MattMan
08-04-2014, 01:47 PM
awesome! good luck finding the machine you want overseas. I'm sure you'll be able to find one with some research!

kabookie10
08-07-2014, 06:56 AM
Andy, i started out new also. I unfortunately didn't do my research first. I first bought a makita rotary polisher...ya ya i know...don't flame me yet. I started on my vehicle with it and it left holograms and looked like crap. Then i did my research and found out the rotary buffers are for professionals. So i bought the PC 7424 XP and wow. It fixed everything amazing. Although i screwed up a pad because i was putting to much pressure on it, the paint looks amazing on my jeep. And it went off road and had all sorts of pin stripes down it. Paint looks new now. I recommend looking at the microfiber pads too instead of the foam. The microfiber may be more forgiving with the PC 7424.

Good luck hope you find your polisher.

Andy Comber
08-07-2014, 07:13 AM
Thanks @kabookie10, I've definitely done my research but a lot of the models I've been looking at, including the porter cable just don't seem to be available in the uk. I've spoken to a guy at chemicalguys uk and he suggests the DA kit they have to be good for a novice. It comes with pads and the V Line polishes, everything I need to get started.

I trust what he says too and I get all my supplies from there too now. So when I get some cash together I'm gonna give it a try.

I'll let everyone know if I kill it or fix it lol

Thanks for all the input though. It's reassuring to know many have been in my shoes and found the process rewarding once they got the hang of it :)

inDetail
08-08-2014, 06:24 PM
DA, 2 orange hex logic.or LC flat pads, 3 hex logic white or LC white flat pads and Menzerna FG400. If you want to really jewel the paint even more SF4000 by Menzerna. You can correct that whole car with FG400 and orange and white pads finish down near lsp ready with one compound. The do it all sealant. Collinite 845. Best protection for $20. It's a detailing legend. 845 is that good.

Realistic Detailer
10-10-2014, 03:02 PM
Hi everyone,

I have a 2005 kia sportage XE and the paint is black but it's called a "black cherry pearl" I think.

Basically it's a black with dark red metallic flecks in it.

The previous owner introduced a ton of swirl marks and scratches and I will ultimately want to correct this, but in the meantime, I'm wondering what the best chemical guys polish and wax would be suitable?

I have previously used some autoglym resin polish that I had (bought before I knew about chemical guys for last car) and I sealed it after a polish and topped off with butter wet wax. It looked pretty good but I'm not getting very good hydrophobic coating with it.

It may be because the previous owner possibly never polished it at all, and as I was polishing the bonnet (hood for you Americans) it literally seemed to suck in the polish as I applied, like it was thirsty for it.

I have some butter wet wax now and wondered what advice you all have for a polish and sealer and finally a wax that may be more hydrophobic on my paint than the butter wet wax?

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

I'm thinking jet seal as a sealer ATM but a bit confused over best polish and wax?

What do you recommend?

Honestly, you may not like my answer, but you asked.

First, you are doing the complete wrong thing to do IMO. If you continue to apply more grease(wax and polish) layers your problems will get far worse.What the old owner did is what you are trying to do now.

You are right about what you are applying is getting sucked in, and that is NOT a good thing.At some time in the future you will want to remove it, and that will lead to paint correction.


My advice would be to use a wax remover to take off what is applied, followed a strong soap wash (Dawn), and using a clay bar.Then I would apply this once a year:
http://www.chemicalguys.com/Factory_Paint_Sealant_16_oz_p/wac_115_16.htm

This will make your paint shine, protect it, and easy maintenance.

Andy Comber
10-12-2014, 03:41 PM
Honestly, you may not like my answer, but you asked.

First, you are doing the complete wrong thing to do IMO. If you continue to apply more grease(wax and polish) layers your problems will get far worse.What the old owner did is what you are trying to do now.

You are right about what you are applying is getting sucked in, and that is NOT a good thing.At some time in the future you will want to remove it, and that will lead to paint correction.


My advice would be to use a wax remover to take off what is applied, followed a strong soap wash (Dawn), and using a clay bar.Then I would apply this once a year:
http://www.chemicalguys.com/Factory_Paint_Sealant_16_oz_p/wac_115_16.htm

This will make your paint shine, protect it, and easy maintenance.

Thanks for the reply realistic detailer, I have since stripped off all wax etc and started again. Still not been able to afford a machine to remove the swirls already there, but I will get round to that in the new year. For now I did a strip and deep clean, claybar, and glaze, finally sealing with jetseal 109 and it looks and feels great for now. It's nicely hydrophobic and after 2 coats of jetseal, I am happy with it being protected enough for the coming crappy weather over winter. A quick foaming and detail spray brings back a great shine now and will suffice until I can professionally remove the swirls and scratches on the bonnet after the snow has been and gone.

Thanks again for the input. I'm still learning but starting to now get the results I wanted.

Before the swirl removal I will be stripping off all sealant etc and then starting again after the correction has been completed.

��

Realistic Detailer
10-13-2014, 08:28 AM
Thanks for the reply realistic detailer, I have since stripped off all wax etc and started again. Still not been able to afford a machine to remove the swirls already there, but I will get round to that in the new year. For now I did a strip and deep clean, claybar, and glaze, finally sealing with jetseal 109 and it looks and feels great for now.

��

Andy

No offense here, but you are not listening. Let me explain:

1. You did not remove all the buildup you applied IMO. If so, the swirls would have been gone. You did not mention what you used to clean the surface. You NEED a wax remover to do that.

2. Putting glaze on before applying Jet Seal is wrong. Think about it. Glaze is grease, and why would Jet Seal bond to it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1N-A78A_wk

Think of applying a sealant much like painting a car. Do you think applying a glaze prior to spraying a coat of paint makes sense? Well, that is what you just did here.

Listen to what the guy says in the video." Wax and paint do not mix" , "Wax removers are needed to make sure everything is removed", Dish soap will not remove all wax".

I know you do not want to hear this, but what you did made this worse IMO. Before you go to a correction detailer after the winter. Use a wax remover like this guy uses first. Make sure you go over the complete car until everything is removed. Then wash it with Dawn , and the clay it. DO NOT APPLY GLAZE, and then apply the Jet Seal.

Andy Comber
10-13-2014, 12:29 PM
Andy

No offense here, but you are not listening. Let me explain:

1. You did not remove all the buildup you applied IMO. If so, the swirls would have been gone. You did not mention what you used to clean the surface. You NEED a wax remover to do that.

2. Putting glaze on before applying Jet Seal is wrong. Think about it. Glaze is grease, and why would Jet Seal bond to it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1N-A78A_wk

Think of applying a sealant much like painting a car. Do you think applying a glaze prior to spraying a coat of paint makes sense? Well, that is what you just did here.

Listen to what the guy says in the video." Wax and paint do not mix" , "Wax removers are needed to make sure everything is removed", Dish soap will not remove all wax".

I know you do not want to hear this, but what you did made this worse IMO. Before you go to a correction detailer after the winter. Use a wax remover like this guy uses first. Make sure you go over the complete car until everything is removed. Then wash it with Dawn , and the clay it. DO NOT APPLY GLAZE, and then apply the Jet Seal.

hmmmm,

no offence taken and none intended here either but considering i am using 100% chemical guys products I am inclined to follow their advice as to the order their products are used in as described in their video below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDRwnhcZWoc

You can clearly see towards the end of the flowchart that glaze (Blacklight in my case) is applied BEFORE sealant (Jetseal).

Considering that the people that produced the video are the people that design and manufacture the products I'm using to be used together in a specific order, I am sticking with the order THEY recommend for their products.

I did listen to what you had to say and i understand what your saying but in this case I disagree with your method.

I understand everyone has their own regime and their own methods and I am still finding my way and learning and by no means an expert, but following the guides set out by the people that make the products i am using makes more sense to me.

using a paper towel as show in the video you recommended is going against everything i have been told and taught this far so although i understand the application of the solvent products shown, potentially putting more swirls and scratches in my clear coat by using an abrasive towel is not something i will be doing. I use an assortment of premium microfiber towels for my paintwork currently and have been successful in not introducing further marks to my clear coat which is ultimately what I'm attempting to protect for the winter.

I understand what i have done so far has sealed in the marks on my clear coat atm as i have layered my products on top of them before correcting the paint defects, but i will be stripping the sealants and wax etc in the new year prior to having the paint defects corrected.

once they are removed I will be rebuilding the layers as described in the chemical guys flowchart in the video to seal in the great and deep shine that glaze provides to my paintwork.

My current setup has successfully given a fantastic shine, the backlight visibly reduced the swirls in my clear coat and i have sealed with 2 coats of jet seal (as recommended) and regularly top up with hybrid v7 detail spray and my bodywork is nicely hydrophobic. rain runs off nicely and the detail spray keeps it looking great now.

for now I am satisfied that my bodywork is suitably protected for the coming bad weather months and after a correction in the new year my paintwork should look as good as new.

Once again I thank you for your input, as I love to gather multiple opinions and i mean no offence when I say that although I read and understood your comments, Im not convinced they are correct for my situation at this time.

But thank you for taking the time to reply to my post, I rurally get excited to read new comments to my questions and posts, good, bad or indifferent as they may be

:)

chromer
10-13-2014, 03:24 PM
Andy

No offense here, but you are not listening. Let me explain:

1. You did not remove all the buildup you applied IMO. If so, the swirls would have been gone. You did not mention what you used to clean the surface. You NEED a wax remover to do that.

2. Putting glaze on before applying Jet Seal is wrong. Think about it. Glaze is grease, and why would Jet Seal bond to it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1N-A78A_wk

Think of applying a sealant much like painting a car. Do you think applying a glaze prior to spraying a coat of paint makes sense? Well, that is what you just did here.

Listen to what the guy says in the video." Wax and paint do not mix" , "Wax removers are needed to make sure everything is removed", Dish soap will not remove all wax".

I know you do not want to hear this, but what you did made this worse IMO. Before you go to a correction detailer after the winter. Use a wax remover like this guy uses first. Make sure you go over the complete car until everything is removed. Then wash it with Dawn , and the clay it. DO NOT APPLY GLAZE, and then apply the Jet Seal.

Are you for real or what?
Companies like CG spend millions on research and employing chemists to develop products.

This post directs someone to a youtube clip of some cowboy using paper towel for cleaning the paint.

I will pass thanks.

Realistic Detailer
10-14-2014, 08:36 AM
Are you for real or what?
Companies like CG spend millions on research and employing chemists to develop products.

This post directs someone to a youtube clip of some cowboy using paper towel for cleaning the paint.

I will pass thanks.

A guess I am real considering I was a working detailer since 1991. Clearly your issue with the paper towel is strange IMO, but not surprising. I guess you miss the point of all the dirt and grime coming of the waxed scooter, but choose to fixate on the paper towel instead.Obviously, you believe that foaming a vehicle and letting it sit will remove that, but I know that is not the case.

It will not be long before Andy is heading for compound and a polisher, or a correction detailer to solve the swirl mark problems that will surely come. I tried to give him a heads up here, but you and he seem to choose another way, and that is just fine with me.

O.C.D
10-14-2014, 09:42 PM
This is intended for "Realistic Detailer"... I agree with Cromer & Andy. I have read several comments of yours and your methods are bizarre. I don't know how things were done back in 1991 but that was a long time ago. If everyone gave their opinion, disagreement with you would be unanimous!

Realistic Detailer
10-25-2014, 08:25 AM
This is intended for "Realistic Detailer"... I agree with Cromer & Andy. I have read several comments of yours and your methods are bizarre. I don't know how things were done back in 1991 but that was a long time ago. If everyone gave their opinion, disagreement with you would be unanimous!

My comments and methods are bizarre? I am not the one asking for help here, but just offered advice how to fix this problem.