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View Full Version : First Attempt with Chemical Guys products. Quick question....



Illegal Machine
07-09-2014, 10:10 AM
Hi!

I just picked up a C63 AMG (2010). The paint is.....not amazing. I was a Zaino guy, so (by hand) I used a paint cleaner (Z-PC) and Z5 Pro Polish to get the paint looking decent, but it's not quite up to my standards.

My Z-PC and Z5 were pretty much empty, so I decided to make a Chemical Guys order. Here are the tools I'm working with.

1) I plan to start with the black (heavy) clay bar.

2) Then (HERE'S MY QUESTION) use the V34 compound. I don't have a great orbital. It's a 10" turtle wax brand (DON'T FAINT!).

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Turtle-Wax-10-Orbital-Polisher/22790214

I've got two bonnets. A synthetic wool and a terry cloth. Are either of those appropriate to use with the V34? If so, what's the best technique to use with this orbital?

3) Finish with Extreme Depth Wax and Seal. Should I apply by hand, or can I use the orbital and one of the two bonnets from #2?

Thanks! Here are some pics of the car. Tonight, I'll hit the paint with a flash so you can see some of the damage I'm fighting, as well as some before/afters.

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/illegalmachine3/DSC_0814_zpsb98b26f9.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/illegalmachine3/DSC_0792_zps18948ae9.jpg

Jayincali
07-09-2014, 11:23 AM
Nice ride.

Not to knock your tools or anything, but I would probably leave that buffer in the box. Those things do more damage than good, plus it doesn't have enough power, or speed to do any type of correction.

If you're on a budget, you can pick up a PC for about $100-$120, add a couple pads and backing plate, and you're in it for about $160 ish. You will then have a buffer that can tackle 90% of paintwork issues and will outlast that Wallyworld buffer 10 fold. My PC is 12+ years old and has been dropped, kicked, pushed around and used quite a lot, yet keeps on ticking.

If there is any way to pick up a PC I would go that route. Plus reading about the terry cloth bonnet made me cringe LOL. I would not want a terry cloth bonnet spinning in a circle at 800 rpm as I guide it over my paint.

Here is an example of what a PC with a couple pads and polish can do. The owner would wash his car with dish soap then "polish" his car using a 10" Craftsman polisher, followed up with a wax coat using said polisher.

Before
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b58/jayinkali/Detailing/214130.jpg

After
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b58/jayinkali/Detailing/214135.jpg

Again. Not trying to put down your equipment, just trying to start you off in the right direction and not create more work down the road, especially since you sound like you're into making your new ride pop.

Illegal Machine
07-09-2014, 11:56 AM
Nice ride.

Not to knock your tools or anything, but I would probably leave that buffer in the box. Those things do more damage than good, plus it doesn't have enough power, or speed to do any type of correction.

If you're on a budget, you can pick up a PC for about $100-$120, add a couple pads and backing plate, and you're in it for about $160 ish. You will then have a buffer that can tackle 90% of paintwork issues and will outlast that Wallyworld buffer 10 fold. My PC is 12+ years old and has been dropped, kicked, pushed around and used quite a lot, yet keeps on ticking.

If there is any way to pick up a PC I would go that route. Plus reading about the terry cloth bonnet made me cringe LOL. I would not want a terry cloth bonnet spinning in a circle at 800 rpm as I guide it over my paint.

Here is an example of what a PC with a couple pads and polish can do. The owner would wash his car with dish soap then "polish" his car using a 10" Craftsman polisher, followed up with a wax coat using said polisher.

Before
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b58/jayinkali/Detailing/214130.jpg

After
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b58/jayinkali/Detailing/214135.jpg

Again. Not trying to put down your equipment, just trying to start you off in the right direction and not create more work down the road, especially since you sound like you're into making your new ride pop.

Oh, I KNOW it's bad. No need to apologize!

The 7424 is always on my watch list. It'll drop to $90 every now and then. I swore next time it dropped that low, I was grabbing it. Just don't know when that'll happen.

*I actually just got a text from a friend saying he's got a PC 7424 I can borrow.*

Ok, so if I grab a couple orange cutting pads (or is another pad more appropriate?) what's my best course of action? What RPM, best technique, how to NOT burn my clear, etc.

^I'm sorry, I know I can find those answers in other threads...just more convenient to ask in here.

MattMan
07-09-2014, 12:06 PM
Nice car!

black clay bar is only for cars that have NEVER been clayed, and ONLY if you're going to polish it afterwards. I don't know about that machine, but for best results, save up and invest in all these tools and products.

Porter Cable 7424
http://www.chemicalguys.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BUF_100.1XP&Click=81022&utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Forum&utm_campaign=BUF_100.1XP

Hex-Logic Sampler
http://www.chemicalguys.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=HEX_3KIT_5&Click=81022&utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Forum&utm_campaign=HEX_3KIT_5

V36 Cutting Polish
http://www.chemicalguys.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=GAP_V36_16&Click=81022&utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Forum&utm_campaign=GAP_V36_16

V38 Final Polish
http://www.chemicalguys.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=GAP_V38_16&Click=81022&utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Forum&utm_campaign=GAP_V38_16

OG Clay & Luber
http://www.chemicalguys.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=CLY_113&Click=81022&utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Forum&utm_campaign=CLY_113

Pad Cleaner
http://www.chemicalguys.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BUF_333_16&Click=81022&utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Forum&utm_campaign=BUF_333_16

MattMan
07-09-2014, 12:07 PM
check for methods here:

http://youtu.be/L5qtEUpVrSM

Jayincali
07-09-2014, 12:20 PM
No worries, I always hate it when someone asks a question and someone replies back with The search function is your friend. Well why do we need a forum then??

I would need to see a couple pics of your paint under a flash or some light to see the amount of damage in the paint. Most folks say use the least abrasive route first, well with the pic I posted, no need as you can tell you'll need the big guns.

By your pics posted above, the paint doesn't look too bad, so I wouldn't start out with an orange cut pad.

If your paint isn't too bad, I would start with a polish pad and medium cut. If that doesn't work, use the heavy cut on a polish pad. If it still doesn't work, try a medium cut on an orange pad. See how you kinda work your way up the chain.

If they are light marring/swirls, I would do a polish pad and light cut. If that combo doesn't do it, work your way up as stated above.

Anytime I'm doing a correction, I smear the product around my work area (usually the size of half a door panel) on 3, then kick it up to 6 and slowly make my passes. Do a cross hatch pattern, meaning go front to back, then once you completed that area go top to bottom. Take your time, you don't need to zip through the area in 30 seconds. Also I see some folks not working the product enough, I usually work my product until the product looks to be almost gone and can just barely see a super thin layer. I'll wipe a small area, if I see it still needs work, I'll continue to work my product as long as it's not dry and dusting.

Don't forget to prime your pad either. On a new pad, I'll do 1 spray of detail spray, then place an X across the pad and smear it in with my finger making sure to spread and work the polish into the pad. Then I'll place about 4-5 dots on the pad and begin working the panel.

Illegal Machine
07-09-2014, 12:41 PM
Nice car!

black clay bar is only for cars that have NEVER been clayed, and ONLY if you're going to polish it afterwards. I don't know about that machine, but for best results, save up and invest in all these tools and products.

Porter Cable 7424
http://www.chemicalguys.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BUF_100.1XP&Click=81022&utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Forum&utm_campaign=BUF_100.1XP

Hex-Logic Sampler
http://www.chemicalguys.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=HEX_3KIT_5&Click=81022&utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Forum&utm_campaign=HEX_3KIT_5

V36 Cutting Polish
http://www.chemicalguys.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=GAP_V36_16&Click=81022&utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Forum&utm_campaign=GAP_V36_16

V38 Final Polish
http://www.chemicalguys.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=GAP_V38_16&Click=81022&utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Forum&utm_campaign=GAP_V38_16

OG Clay & Luber
http://www.chemicalguys.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=CLY_113&Click=81022&utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Forum&utm_campaign=CLY_113

Pad Cleaner
http://www.chemicalguys.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BUF_333_16&Click=81022&utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Forum&utm_campaign=BUF_333_16

Well, the car has 40K miles on it, and I can guarantee it's never been clay bar'd. And it spent a short time in Wisconsin, so I'm sure it's seen at least one winter up there.

If you think it's going to be too much, I'll give you all a call and see about swapping.

Also, I have the V34, should I return that too, and go with the V36 and V38?

Thanks!

Illegal Machine
07-09-2014, 12:42 PM
No worries, I always hate it when someone asks a question and someone replies back with The search function is your friend. Well why do we need a forum then??

I would need to see a couple pics of your paint under a flash or some light to see the amount of damage in the paint. Most folks say use the least abrasive route first, well with the pic I posted, no need as you can tell you'll need the big guns.

By your pics posted above, the paint doesn't look too bad, so I wouldn't start out with an orange cut pad.

If your paint isn't too bad, I would start with a polish pad and medium cut. If that doesn't work, use the heavy cut on a polish pad. If it still doesn't work, try a medium cut on an orange pad. See how you kinda work your way up the chain.

If they are light marring/swirls, I would do a polish pad and light cut. If that combo doesn't do it, work your way up as stated above.

Anytime I'm doing a correction, I smear the product around my work area (usually the size of half a door panel) on 3, then kick it up to 6 and slowly make my passes. Do a cross hatch pattern, meaning go front to back, then once you completed that area go top to bottom. Take your time, you don't need to zip through the area in 30 seconds. Also I see some folks not working the product enough, I usually work my product until the product looks to be almost gone and can just barely see a super thin layer. I'll wipe a small area, if I see it still needs work, I'll continue to work my product as long as it's not dry and dusting.

Don't forget to prime your pad either. On a new pad, I'll do 1 spray of detail spray, then place an X across the pad and smear it in with my finger making sure to spread and work the polish into the pad. Then I'll place about 4-5 dots on the pad and begin working the panel.

Great advice! Thanks so much!

Do you prime the pad before starting each work area?

I'll post a few pictures of the paint tonight.

Jayincali
07-09-2014, 12:57 PM
Great advice! Thanks so much!

Do you prime the pad before starting each work area?

I'll post a few pictures of the paint tonight.


Sounds good. And no just prime on a new pad.

XenaBimmer
07-09-2014, 04:08 PM
Ya I wouldn't do the heavy clay bar, you'll do a lot of marring and almost more harm than good on a car newish like yours. Use the OG yellow clay
I'd do V34 with an orange pad, but you also need to follow it up with some type of polish, probably V38 with a white pad. Then, you'll be ready to seal and wax, but make sure the sealant is laid down before the wax. If you want even more pop, put down a nice glaze prior to the sealant using the PC and a black pad.

Nice looking C63 though! I don't see to many red ones, and you can't beat that exhaust note!

TdawgtheGreat
07-09-2014, 05:47 PM
I also have red cars, I'd like to say if you plan on doing V34, MAKE SURE you also do V36 and V38. You WILL see the marks in the paint from the V34.

Illegal Machine
07-09-2014, 09:18 PM
Ya I wouldn't do the heavy clay bar, you'll do a lot of marring and almost more harm than good on a car newish like yours. Use the OG yellow clay
I'd do V34 with an orange pad, but you also need to follow it up with some type of polish, probably V38 with a white pad. Then, you'll be ready to seal and wax, but make sure the sealant is laid down before the wax. If you want even more pop, put down a nice glaze prior to the sealant using the PC and a black pad.

Nice looking C63 though! I don't see to many red ones, and you can't beat that exhaust note!

Ok. I'll call and swap it out for a yellow. I've got two white pads on order. Can I use the V34 with a white pad, then follow with a V38 on the next pad? Then seal (black pad?) and wax?

Thanks! Yeah, it's mostly white/silver/black. Didn't think I'd be into the red, but it's growing on me fast. Here's a sound clip. She's a rowdy one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTxcHK184bs&list=UUkhgv0wh4AduLSi4vfA3Ahg&index=1

Illegal Machine
07-09-2014, 09:22 PM
Ok here are some (not great) pictures. I should have done this while it was still daylight.

This is the top of the trunk at the lip spoiler. You can see in the bottom right corner the swirls in the paint (probably drive-thru car washes). That's all over the trunk and bumper, I just couldn't get the camera to see what I was seeing.

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/illegalmachine3/DSC_0890_zpsc491f41c.jpg

Hood. Look closely and you can see fine scratches all over it.

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/illegalmachine3/DSC_0896_zps1ee766bb.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/illegalmachine3/DSC_0894_zps2432d551.jpg

Haze mark at the base of the C pillar where it bends into the fender/quarter panel.

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/illegalmachine3/DSC_0902_zpsd0981b41.jpg

Not anything crazy, but the car obviously has seen its share of drive-thru car washes and not a lot of garage time.

Jayincali
07-10-2014, 09:44 AM
I would try the V36 on a white pad, then V38 on white pad. It looks neglected, but not too over the top.

I hear that Lava wax is awesome on red cars, so maybe try some of that as well. I have a Deep Cherry Pearl color on my truck, and looking into a tub of Lava myself.

XenaBimmer
07-10-2014, 11:13 AM
Ok. I'll call and swap it out for a yellow. I've got two white pads on order. Can I use the V34 with a white pad, then follow with a V38 on the next pad? Then seal (black pad?) and wax?

Thanks! Yeah, it's mostly white/silver/black. Didn't think I'd be into the red, but it's growing on me fast. Here's a sound clip. She's a rowdy one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTxcHK184bs&list=UUkhgv0wh4AduLSi4vfA3Ahg&index=1

Sounds nasty! In a good way of course ;)

V34 with the white pad may be enough for your paint since it doesn't look super swirled up. The best way is to try a test section with the PC and see if that gets the job done, basically all the scratches/swirls should be removed, with a slight hazing left which the polish (V38) will remove. If its not enough, then move to the orange pad. Personally, I use the orange with any compounds, and it seems Chemical Guys also does this in most videos. Their pad sample kit (orange, white, black) is what I have, with white for polish and black for glaze application.

inDetail
07-10-2014, 10:58 PM
All sounds good except applying a sealant via black pad and a DA. Once a sealant hits that pad kiss it good bye for any other uses. You are never going to get all that sealant out. I really like my black pads for a final polish with SMAT/DAT hybrid polishes. They have zero cut so you are just using the friction and pad rotation to break down the polish allowing the polish to gloss the paint even further. This allows for really long work times as well. The only other thing I use them for would be glazes and glazes wash out of them. Do your sealants by hand and save your pricey pads for other needs.

Illegal Machine
08-13-2014, 03:46 PM
Ok. Spent around 7 hours working on the car this weekend.

Friday: Wash and Clay Bar.
Saturday: V36 via orange pad, V38 via white pad, Finish with Extreme Depth Wax and Seal on a black pad. All done using the Porter Cable 7425.

Have to say...super underwhelmed by the results. The car looks AMAZING, reflecting everything on earth...until you catch the light just right....and you notice all of the scratches are basically still there. The car itself is so clean that it's hard to see past all of the reflections...but I honestly don't see much in the way of paint correction.

There aren't any MORE scratches than before...just the same swirls and scratches that I recognize before the 7 hours of work.

Thoughts? Suggestions? I've got V34 coming in, so I might try that on the hood and just see if I notice a difference.

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/illegalmachine3/DSC_0973_zps616673be.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/illegalmachine3/DSC_0974_zps75e6d59c.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/illegalmachine3/DSC_0977_zpsf2e6637c.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/illegalmachine3/DSC_0980_zps5695b8a1.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/illegalmachine3/DSC_0981_zpsfab6b126.jpg

MattMan
08-13-2014, 04:05 PM
Definitely try a more aggressive polish. V36 cutting polish will handle 90% of paint defects on most cars, but since you've got a Mercedes.. Well, the one time I polished a late model Mercedes, I had to use V32 with an orange pad on a rotary. I then finished with V38 on white pad.

Illegal Machine
08-15-2014, 03:16 PM
Aaaand after an attempt with a V34 + orange pad....results are nearly identical.

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/illegalmachine3/DSC_0996_zpsabba764b.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/illegalmachine3/DSC_0995_zpsaf721241.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/illegalmachine3/DSC_0993_zps1eb1d27a.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/illegalmachine3/DSC_0991_zps6a6aefe7.jpg


So to recap, I've done V36 on an orange pad, V38 on a white pad, then V34 on an orange pad followed by V38 on a white pad.

So should I even bother with the V32? Any ideas?

TdawgtheGreat
08-15-2014, 06:55 PM
I've polished and wetsanded many mercedes in the body shop I work at, and I can tell you their paint (2010+) is hard. Your DA might just not have enough power to get the results you are looking to achieve.

inDetail
08-16-2014, 03:16 PM
With a PC it will take you a long time to do a multi step correction on really hard clear coat. My advice grab a bottle of Menzerna FG400 or Wolfgang Uber compound. They are almost identical. Wolfgang had Menzerna make a compound to their specs. Uber is a little more user friendly but also more money. You can get a tester bottle at AG.
It will take care of those defects. Both compound are SMAT/DAT hybrids. You can control the amount of cut as well by pad choice. and will finish down near LSP ready with zero hazing. You can follow up with v38 but on harder clears I can usually do a multi step with the FG400/Uber. Start with an orange cut and finish out using a white.
You can also get more cut with a MF pad. The CG black optics pads are great. The orange will help cut that paint faster.They are made for CG by Buff & Shine and they sell them as well.

Illegal Machine
08-18-2014, 07:12 AM
With a PC it will take you a long time to do a multi step correction on really hard clear coat. My advice grab a bottle of Menzerna FG400 or Wolfgang Uber compound. They are almost identical. Wolfgang had Menzerna make a compound to their specs. Uber is a little more user friendly but also more money. You can get a tester bottle at AG.
It will take care of those defects. Both compound are SMAT/DAT hybrids. You can control the amount of cut as well by pad choice. and will finish down near LSP ready with zero hazing. You can follow up with v38 but on harder clears I can usually do a multi step with the FG400/Uber. Start with an orange cut and finish out using a white.
You can also get more cut with a MF pad. The CG black optics pads are great. The orange will help cut that paint faster.They are made for CG by Buff & Shine and they sell them as well.

Thanks for the post!

Ok, I'll grab a sample of the Wolfgang Uber from AG.

This will be my final attempt before giving up. Wolfgang Uber + CG Orange pad.

I'll post pics!

Vobro
08-18-2014, 02:35 PM
The test spot is your friend! It saves time, headaches and money. Use very slow arm speed and check your work with an IPA wipe down. The PC can get the job done it will just take time

inDetail
08-18-2014, 05:56 PM
Try the Uber test and let use know how you make out. Start with orange foam then finish up with white. Do yourself a favor tape out the test to see how it is going. Remember that paint is hard as a rock. Using uber and a pc will take time. Remember nice slow motion. The stuff has a really long work time. You will get bored waiting.for it to flash out. Let the compound work.
Post some pics

rogergoochman
08-30-2014, 08:30 PM
Read through the thread intrigued to see the results

98stang
10-30-2014, 03:38 PM
Nice ride.

Not to knock your tools or anything, but I would probably leave that buffer in the box. Those things do more damage than good, plus it doesn't have enough power, or speed to do any type of correction.

If you're on a budget, you can pick up a PC for about $100-$120, add a couple pads and backing plate, and you're in it for about $160 ish. You will then have a buffer that can tackle 90% of paintwork issues and will outlast that Wallyworld buffer 10 fold. My PC is 12+ years old and has been dropped, kicked, pushed around and used quite a lot, yet keeps on ticking.

If there is any way to pick up a PC I would go that route. Plus reading about the terry cloth bonnet made me cringe LOL. I would not want a terry cloth bonnet spinning in a circle at 800 rpm as I guide it over my paint.

Here is an example of what a PC with a couple pads and polish can do. The owner would wash his car with dish soap then "polish" his car using a 10" Craftsman polisher, followed up with a wax coat using said polisher.

Before
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b58/jayinkali/Detailing/214130.jpg

After
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b58/jayinkali/Detailing/214135.jpg

Again. Not trying to put down your equipment, just trying to start you off in the right direction and not create more work down the road, especially since you sound like you're into making your new ride pop.

I thought the bottom picture was a picture of the sky haha. That is insane

Busymind
10-30-2014, 04:56 PM
Yea where in the hell are the results? Don't tell me I wasted 5 minutes of my life while neglecting my kids to not see a final result! Haha...pics or get banned